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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 21, 2011 5:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

OK, given the recent pickup in activity vis-a-vis available purchases of shows, such as the new RT model (the subscription aspect--that's "on", right? You got screwed with an 88 release or some such if I recall? IE, when you "signed up"?), and now the GIGANTIC 72 box (is it really a "box" or a "chest"? How big is it? I wouldn't want a bunch of those crappy cardbd sleeves, personally), my question is:

Has it come to pass that a) in spite of all the free trading, sharing, etc., that b) Bob and co HAVE been sitting on a Gold Mine, and that c) the college educations are now secure for kids of said member (et al)?

Addt'l question: pardon my REAL ignorance, BUT did the band/Garcia estate "sell off" all interest to Rhino such that they no longer see the $$, or do royalities (?) continue to flow "in", per ind, and Rhino just bought the rights to mge/produce/distrib/etc?

It really is amazing when you think about it...given the presumed production costs of these items, it seems a real $$ maker afterall is said and done, and yes IN SPITE of the vast circulation of SDBs, etc., etc.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jan 21, 2011 5:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

I was thinking just the opposite, Sir Tell. This looks more to me like an attempt to raise $$$.

Trickling out releases for a decade, and then all of a sudden the vault gets opened and the modus operandi gets radically changed: A slick subscription offer that includes a hard and fast deadline to include an important bonus disc and a mega-box of extremely important material being produced in very limited quantity.

Both offered within about one month of each other? While an embarrassingly over the hill band tours like it's 1969?

My guess is that either someone needs to raise some capital for a new mansion in Northern California, or perhaps the band members are just tired of not being compensated for the distribution of their intellectual property. Not that I'm complaining. I'm quite happy to see more from the vault being made available, though I do wish it was being done a bit differently...

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Jan 21, 2011 6:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

>My guess is that either someone needs to raise some >capital for a new mansion in Northern California, or >perhaps the band members are just tired of not being >compensated for the distribution of their intellectual >property.

I guess I'm not nearly so cynical.
I might see where they're thinking of their descendants' longer-term rights to profit from their activities. I really can't argue with them there. I just don't get why people seemingly feel so betrayed by this. Sure everything was free and flowing when they were 30 or even 40 or 50, but does there not come a time when one thinks, so seriously, what is my responsibility to my wife and children, what am I leaving behind? I won't be here forever. I just do not see that they want to buy mansions. Maybe I am naive.

Maybe they also understand that their fan base used to live out of VW buses and sleep in the woods and bathe biannually, in order to be able to hear the music, but nowdays, a large demographic of the fan base (not all, true, but definitely a large demographic) is pretty damn comfortable and can perhaps reasonably be asked to pay back a bit of what was so freely given.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Jan 21, 2011 6:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

Well said.

Especially the bi-annual bathing.

Yeah, I also see it as the band/business folks realizing that the "fans" now have some extra money and asking them to fork over some bills now and then for some outstanding music is in no way unreasonable. I don't doubt they would have done this sooner if they thought it was possible. You know there is an army of researchers and consultants involved in this, gauging when the time is right for releasing all this stuff commercially in order to maximize return. Relase it too soon and the taget audience is still scraping loose change together in order to buy this Spring's bar of Irish Spring. Release it too late and you risk losing the target audience to Alzheimers or the cemetary.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Jan 21, 2011 6:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

LOL!!

"I also see it as the band/business folks realizing that the "fans" now have some extra money and asking them to fork over some bills now and then for some outstanding music is in no way unreasonable."

That's pretty much my view. Especially considering that such vast quantities remain free and always will remain free. It just seems to me everyone in this picture can have their cake and eat it too.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jan 21, 2011 6:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

I hope you were not referring to me when you brought up cynicism. I did not intend to be cynical, Perhaps it was just Cliff's personality coming through ;)

I strongly believe that the soundboard recordings archived here are indeed the property of the Grateful Dead. I had always hoped that they would be made available to the public as official vault-type releases.

I'm not complaining, however the manner in which these two latest releases are being sold, smacks of an attempt to raise money in a short period of time. And if Phil wants a new 8500 square foot mansion in Marin, I guess he is entittled, no cynicism intended...

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Jan 21, 2011 6:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

Do you think he does, though? Just idle curiosity. I too really don't begrudge him.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jan 21, 2011 6:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

I have no idea what the motivation is behind the new manner in which these products are now being being marketed. But from a business model aspect, it surely appears like an attempt to raise capital in a short period of time.

I also believe that the band members have had some sort of catharsis regarding being compensated for the distribution of their intellectual property, to an aging consumer base...

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jan 21, 2011 6:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

How would you like to see the vault material released? Lets assume for a second that we agree that release of the material should also benefit the band members.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jan 21, 2011 6:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

I would prefer not feeling pressured to have to purchase a subscription to a series that includes performances from the late 80's, in order not to miss out on an important bonus disc.

Or having to deal with the pressure of time factors in investing a significant amount of cash to aquire an extremely important release because it's being produced in such a limited quantity.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jan 21, 2011 6:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

That's reasonable. Overall i was pretty satisfied with the RT concept, however the subscription thing seems unreasonable. As we see around here, there are people who aren't going to want an '88 release and those that do, would probably be disappointed if they found out that the next release they paid for was from '68. To assume that all deadheads love everything from '65 to '95 is naive (except whirlwind, he loves everything!!!!!!). For the eurobox, at least they aren't charging you until they ship, so you aren't laying the money out in advance. I figure i will curtail on other purchasing activities to save up the money over the months between now and the shipment.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 22, 2011 7:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

Wait a minute...someone would be upset about a 68 release?

Shocking if true.

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Poster: vapors Date: Jan 22, 2011 7:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

The only thing to get upset about is that there isn't more!
(yet, he says with fingers and toes crossed)

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Poster: snori Date: Jan 21, 2011 6:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

Ideally as downloads, with artwork that I can stick on the discs and in my own CD cases (not those fingernail torturing, obscenity inducing, CD damaging crapboard cases they currently arrive in). And then do away with the rush to buy in advance - just have them continually available and there will be a steady income for the band, their children, their childrens' children etc.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 22, 2011 7:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

I know we've been over this before; had to reply though re: your description of the cardbd "sleeves"!!!

LOL. Hate those things--all of mine have been "transformed" one way or the other...

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jan 21, 2011 5:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

Seems to me that Further keeps on announcing tour dates, therefore CD sales aren't allowing Bob and Phil to sit home. I give Mickey and Bill a pass since they are out there doing different things, which would seem to be less likely to generate tuition funds and therefore they have different motives. If they wanted to make money they would be doing more Dead tours right?

I think you would need to know how many units of the RTs, etc they actually sell before you could say its a gold mine, right? I have no idea how many of any of these things they sell. For the megabox it is easy to figure out the gross since they say they are only making 7200, however we really have no idea what the profit margin on these are. Despite the production costs, i bet it will be pretty good. I have mentioned here before that I get research funding from a foundation that is heavily supported by the music industry. They told me that the profit margin on CD sales is much greater than .mp3 which still seems very surprising to me. However it would explain why there have been essentially no digital releases of any Dead material since Rhino took over. I think the only thing they released digitally were the shows they used to make RT 1-1 about 6 months after that CD came out. Must not have gone well since they never did it again.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Jan 21, 2011 6:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

>Seems to me that Further keeps on announcing tour dates, therefore CD sales aren't allowing Bob and Phil to sit home

But do you seriously think *that's* why Bob and Phil tour?! I don't see that at all. I think they like to perform.

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Poster: ducats Date: Jan 21, 2011 7:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

Bobby def looked to enjoy that El Paso at the Nokia!

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jan 21, 2011 6:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

I definitely think they love to perform. I think they are doing the GD cover band thing because they make more money performing that way then what Mickey and Bill are doing.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jan 21, 2011 6:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

How many PhD's to there kids need? 4, 5, 6? It's more then money for BW & PL to be playing music, working like a dog, with that tour schedule (22 days out of 34 for March/April, 10 S.O. so far). That's a lot of effort, no matter the number of attendants lining the way.
Maybe the employees sucked them dry till the '05 exodus and now it's money time. But, they have a huge catalog to collect checks from. Some big time life insurance and frankly, this is macabre, but when an artist dies their sales spike big time. Many dead 'stars' make more money now then they did while they were alive. Those things combined would pay for a small college. Then, their kids can write their own diplomas in whatever they like.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jan 21, 2011 6:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

Recall it was Bob who brought up sending his kids to college back in 2005 when they pulled the sbds here.

Touring was how they always made money and i suspect it is what they know best. My point is that Phil and Bob, after The Dead tour, seemed to stick with the vehicle that is less interesting and more lucrative than Mickey and Bill did. They all love to perform, two are getting paid better for living in the past, thats all.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jan 21, 2011 7:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

I think I am putting my own experience into what touring must be. But after several decades, maybe it's like going on vacation for them. And they get paid!

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Poster: TOOTMO Date: Jan 21, 2011 7:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

" this is macabre, but when an artist dies their sales spike big time. Many dead 'stars' make more money now then they did while they were alive. "

There is an "old" CBS story making the rounds anew about "delebs". This guy, Cribbs, is kind of the major force. He is the one who first got James Dean's family in Iowa in the 80's some money. Until then they had no idea that anybody was even making money off of Dean. It's a pretty good article if that kind of stuff interests ya.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/25/60minutes/main5341253.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody


TOOTMO

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Poster: craven714 Date: Jan 21, 2011 7:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

good point. Which of those shows will you be attending, and then walking out on? Just curious =)

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jan 21, 2011 7:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

I just found out Furthur tics are not $35, but $75 bucks a pop! Nuts!
Mrs. M. was not happy as her shows to attend on the spring tour, ahh, declined.
I am down to 1 Furthur show/year and I will not act grumpy, I will have a smile on my face and be grateful(you never know..). It's date night.
And I will have gone to see the doc beforehand to get some happy happy potion.

At GOV, Deep Banana Blackout or Further? See you at DBB shakeitupnow.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jan 21, 2011 6:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

I would have thought, from a purely musical point of view, that they both had much more fulfilling outlets available to them if all they really wanted to do was to get out there and play. Ratdog (though I've never been a big fan of that band) and Phil and Friends seemed much more satisfying environments to stretch out and play in. There are number of P&F shows I'd be happy to listen to more than once, but I've never even been tempted to listen to a Furthur show all the way through.

The answer, I imagine, is that the revenue from ticket sales for Furthur far outstrips that from Ratdog and/or P&F and that's why those projects were put to one side. Although I might wish it weren't so, I'm not criticising the decision. There aren't many of us who'd take the moral high ground when the money is on the table.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jan 21, 2011 6:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

I wasn't knocking them for it, I think I was saying exactly what you were. Alas you always say it better than I. That they love to perform, they can make more money as Further or The Dead than on their own. I like the few 7 Walkers shows i have listened to, but i doubt that is anywhere close to the moneymaker that The Dead would be for Bill. Same for Mickey and whatever he is banging on these days.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jan 21, 2011 7:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

Maybe not better, but certainly more long winded...

Am I right in thinking that the Rhythm Devils are still an ongoing concern? The shows with Keller Williams last summer are worth a dip into although I believe he's no longer in the band. I'll take quirky innovation over slavish copycatting any old day.

http://www.archive.org/details/RhythmDevils

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Jan 21, 2011 6:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

Cheers to Billy and 7 Walkers. No way they are brining in the big bucks. I'm sure their revenue is respectable, but nothing compared to what Furthur generates. 7 Walkers is playing a music festival out here in May and I can go see them and 5 other bands for a whopping $35. Furthur is around $75 and up for just them.

Bob might be driving a nicer car, but I have a feeling Billy's blood pressure is significantly lower.

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Poster: snori Date: Jan 21, 2011 7:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

Have you heard the NYE show SDH ? I've been listening to the this and the 30th. It takes a little while to get used to the vocals, but they are warm glow shows - more power to their elbows, and perhaps they will follow in Ratdog's pawprints for a few low key shows over here. http://www.archive.org/details/7walkers2010-12-31.m210

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Jan 21, 2011 7:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

Agreed. I like what I've heard so far. Very much orginal takes on standards and nice originals. I'm thinking that barring an early summer in terms of temps here, I'll probably head out to see them.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jan 21, 2011 7:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

SDH, 7 Walkers are playing small venues.

http://tinyurl.com/6xo6mca

And Billy's shot across the Furthur bow,

http://www.jambands.com/news/2010/12/02/kreutzmann-takes-a-stab-at-furthur

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Poster: shakeitupnow Date: Jan 21, 2011 8:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

speaking of 7 Walkers -- here is a nice link to stream the show I saw 12/10/10 in Fall River. It sounds great:
http://www.ncfta.org/music_archive.php
click on the "my radio" button and there it is. enjoy!
I can't stop listening to these guys.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Jan 21, 2011 7:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

Oh, I was not saying anything about the size of venue. Yes they are playing a festival, but given the number of stages and bands, the actualy number of people watching them won't be that large. Certainly nothing close to what Furthur pulls in for the arena shows.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jan 21, 2011 7:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

I'm with you there. I've read that Phil's wealth is valued at $35 million. Haven't seen or can't recall Bob's figures, but I doubt he's just scraping by. I'd say the families are pretty well set.

Sure, it never hurts to have more, and no one can fault folks for that, but if you just want to make money, there are all kinds of things you can do with $35 million that don't involve touring if you secretly don't like it or feel it's somehow an artistic compromise. My guess on Furthur is that one part is about enjoying the crowds and vibes a la the good old days, another part is the legacy ... showing that they CAN do "the Dead" sans Jerry, revisit the Dead music as "repertoire" as Phil likes to put it, etc etc. The reviews on this effort are better than earlier "reunions" ... clearly something is clicking, so wouldn't that be pretty fun for the band, too?

I'm sure it doesn't hurt that they're making good money. But if they felt it was a compromise of their artistic integrity compared to other efforts, why would they do it at their ages, when they're hardly hurting financially and it's got to be grueling, yada yada? Why not just assume that this IS what they want to being right now -- artistically, personally, etc?

Anyway, that's my wordy cents!




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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 21, 2011 10:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wait--all these comments fall to the wayside...

...if we KNOW Phil is worth $35 mill!?

Are you kidding me? Why would he be touring for $ if that's true...?

People with 35 mil don't do ANYTHING they don't want to, at least all the ones I know.

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Poster: gmcgill Date: Jan 21, 2011 2:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wait--all these comments fall to the wayside...

Don't know about the $35 million. But two years ago I sat directly across the aisle from Phil and his wife on a delta first class flight from Atlanta to San Francisco. They had no "handlers" getting them on the flight and when they got off in San Fran, they strolled down the terminal by themselves and stopped to look at some books on display in the airport bookstore. Most people with $35m fly private to avoid the airport hassles, etc.

p.s. I didn't bother Phil during the long flight, but did talk to him just a bit after we landed and told him how much I enjoyed his book. He was very friendly and talkative. Of course, it was really cool that during the flight I listened to nothing but either GD or Phil & Friends shows on my IPOD.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 21, 2011 2:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wait--all these comments fall to the wayside...

I hear ya; as I outline elsewhere here today, though, my friends that know him as a local family man paint a pic of one that lives very modestly, and yet when the need arises (health issues), spends lavishly (as we ALL would of course).

So, not sure, but there ya have it--ie, contrasting portraits of what I think most of us consider an outstanding fellow, one who has not been transformed by his $$, however much it is, but uses it when necessary...?

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jan 21, 2011 2:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wait--all these comments fall to the wayside...

Money changes everything no matter the struggle.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jan 21, 2011 11:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wait--all these comments fall to the wayside...

$30-35 million was the figure that was being bandied about when there was the fuss at the end of last year about the funding for the UCSC archive ('why don't they pay for it their damned selves?'). Although admittedly I didn't look that hard, there seemed to be a distinct lack of a reliable source for this information.

Whatever the truth of the matter, based on the video and pictures I've seen and reports I've read Phil really does seem to be doing something he enjoys doing. Could be, I suppose, that doing it with the Furthur lot is an easier ride than taking the stage with a bunch of gadabout guitarslingers with their own ideas about how to play the stuff. I guess you can't deny a wealthy man in his 70s the right to the easy option if that's what he wants.

Now, as to what motivates the unhappy old walrus he has onstage with him, there you have me...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 21, 2011 1:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wait--all these comments fall to the wayside...

Agree completely. Bob's a puzzle. Phil, I think, truly enjoys himself (good for him!), and I sometimes think "why doesn't he pick better bandmates [sorry, "friends of Bob!"], as that would seem to make it even more enjoyable (like Billy/Mickey seem to do?). Like he had going with some "Phil & friends" lineups...

But, maybe the experience, in a "non-musical perfection" sense, is truly rewarding for him (he just loves Bob...? Seriously--something along those lines mayhaps?).

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jan 21, 2011 1:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wait--all these comments fall to the wayside...

So Phil is bringing the Ersatz Dead experience to those who crave such things while doing his good friend Bob a huge favour and making a tidy pile of spending cash in the process - and all by playing stuff he could perform in his sleep. Looks like a win all round for the old man!

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Jan 21, 2011 7:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wait--all these comments fall to the wayside...

>he just loves Bob?

well I was thinking something like that. I have the idea that relationship is pretty important to both of them.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jan 21, 2011 12:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wait--all these comments fall to the wayside...

('why don't they pay for it their damned selves?')
Yes , yes , yes! Archiving is a business. Frankly, a private (competent) business would be a better location for the GD archive. There are so many financial streams that will come out of that regardless of GD's openness with their work and current access they give us.

'Furthur.. is an easier ride than taking the stage with a bunch of gadabout guitarslingers with their own ideas about how to play the stuff'

And hence The reason for the current resident dawns on me.
Back to back rob. That's why you are the 'smith.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Jan 21, 2011 7:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wait--all these comments fall to the wayside...

>Phil really does seem to be doing something he enjoys doing.

If you see them live, there really isn't any question about this. Phil = happy.

As for the unhappy old walrus, I don't know.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jan 21, 2011 10:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wait--all these comments fall to the wayside...

Love or Money??
Let's go with love.

They ought to have found a competent guitarist. Too bad.

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Poster: dark.starz Date: Jan 21, 2011 1:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Wait--all these comments fall to the wayside...

For all the speculation, bashing and personal digs that one endures in this cesspool, what's the point of speculating anyone's financial net-worth?

Whatever amount of coin they posess, "they earned every penny of it".

And if you consider their contribution's to humanity, this would weigh heavier than any amount of gold.

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Jan 21, 2011 8:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

When it's all said and done, $3 million from E72 is chump change in this industry. For the band members, touring definitely generates more cash. And I agree with others that they do it because they love playing in front of an audience, not for the money. Justin Beiber (or whomever you name that's hot right now) can sell a million CDs and dwarf anything the GD can do right now. Likewise a tour of a hot act generates tens of millions.

I think they're releasing the material now because of a simple fact: they realize that this core generation of deadheads is maturing, greying and gradually passing on. Sell while there's still a market that will buy. 30 years from now is too late to make any money - few will care.

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Poster: snori Date: Jan 21, 2011 8:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

I'd like to think that in the future GD will attain the same kind of status as Bird, Miles etc have now and that whatever the technology (your own personal mp3 cloud hanging over you as you jog) there will be the same interest as the jazz greats. I think Garcia at least deserves that longevity.

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Jan 21, 2011 8:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

Agree - JG is just as important, if not more so. But, how many records did those guys sell lately? (not that $$ mean anything in regards to artistic integrity, no relationship.) Point being - we are already 45 years from the inception of this band. We can preserve a legacy for the future, that's fine. Is there any other band ever that has released such a legacy? The sheer number of official releases is 10 times any other band I can think of, and yet we're still listening, collecting and ready to buy more. Astounding !

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jan 21, 2011 9:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

To think that Lesh and Weir are on the road simply for the love of playing and not for the money is just naive. It seems pretty obvious that they formed Furthur because it was more of an earning proposition than their current bands, so money most definitely plays a part.

They also have to be taking into account that it's not just their audience that's getting older and greyer. Thirty years from now I don't see 100-year-old Phil caring too much either. Might be fun to attend the birthday show though...

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Poster: boltman Date: Jan 21, 2011 9:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

Agreed...I love my job, but would have to do something else if they didn't pay me. I recognize the current economic realities and try to get paid the greatest amount that my profession and the economy can sustain. I wish to sustain my wife and kids at the highest level of comfort that is possible considering my chosen profession.

The remaining members of the Dead should be expected to do no less. They created the music and should be allowed to do with it as they please. I am free to purchase or not, stream or not, download auds or not, use etree/LL, or the unmentionable Pirate Bay.

Few artists have achieved the staying power of the Dead. Miles, Coltrane, Monk and the like are still selling music, but I can't imagine the estates are receiving large sums. The Beatles are probably still bringing in large amounts of money, but I believe that much of that is going to others who own the catalog.

Sorry, rambling. Seems like the general consensus around these parts is that it is what it is (to paraphrase Popeye). My two cents is that I'm fine with it, as if that matters in the least to the band...and it doesn't need to. My relationship is to the music they created, not necessarily to the people who made it. Sometimes the two get squishy. It becomes difficult to separate the musician from the music; we see them as mythic because the music is so powerful. However, they are just the same as us...flawed humans.

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Jan 21, 2011 9:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

Maybe naive. Everyone likes getting paid - but I'd say it's ludicrous to say they're doing it for primarily for the money. Two things that drive musicians from experience: they love playing, as often as possible, with other like-minded, creative musicians; and they love an audience.

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Jan 21, 2011 2:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

I agree with that. if they were just doing it for the cash they wouldn't be pushing the 3-3 1/2 hr mark every night.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Jan 21, 2011 1:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

>To think that Lesh and Weir are on the road simply for the love of playing and not for the money is just naive.

To me it doesn't make any sense to figure that multi-millionaires are going out to work every day for the money. They must be enjoying themselves, no, 'cus they don't have to do it? If I had $35 million I would certainly not keep working my tail off (and I *do* like my job), but I can guarantee you I would be doing mainly what pleased me with most of my days.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Jan 21, 2011 8:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

couldnt have said it better myself UJ

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jan 21, 2011 12:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

make that two

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Poster: Lou Davenport Date: Jan 21, 2011 6:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

When the Rhino deal was announced, I remember words to the effect that the boys retained editorial control, but I'm not clear what royalties they still get. I've always distinguished the RT releases from others, since they're only available on dead.net and Rhino appears nowhere on the sleeves and discs. I'd view the E72 trunk the same way, but the text on dead.net does mention GD/Rhino.

As to price and production costs, the price tag on the E72 trunk comes to about $7 per disc. Even if you think cost of materials and manufacture is just $1 per disc, including the pro-rated cost of the book, map, packaging, etc., they're only netting $6 x 7200 = $43200 per CD of recorded material. Mastering of 16 track recordings involves a certain amount of time by skilled technicians and time on expensive equipment, especially I imagine when the tapes are 40 years old. They're also presumably paying something extra for the Plangent processing. Then what's left over gets divided how many ways among Rhino and band members? And these are for some of the most legendary recordings in the band's history. It doesn't seem like a gold mine to me.

That said, the 7200 copy run is limited to the whole set. They could later generate more revenue from these same efforts by releasing individual show digipaks.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jan 21, 2011 6:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

It only makes sense if at 7200, you expand the number of limited box sets or offer individual shows of the tour. When I did the math it did not seem to me to be a moneymaker b/c of the cap.

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Poster: deadhead53 Date: Jan 21, 2011 7:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

Just my 2 cents. To me they are free to release and charge what ever they want whenever they want, it is their product, art and property. We are free to buy or not buy, I like to pick and choose what I buy from what I have downloaded here. I would love to see them release their catalog like the Black Crowes, Gov Mule, moe. and many other bands do as livedownloads either with that site or they can create their own like itunes did with the Crowes last San Fran run. That way anyone can pick and choose whatever they want to buy. I will not buy the E72 box set because to me that is a major purchase and I will not have the time to listen to all of it properly and eventually I would feel like I wasted my money. Furthur has released all their SBD's for purchase and I would love the dead to do the same. I just don't see why people get so upset on this forum at times because they want to make some cash for their family for college, cars or whatever, it is not my business and I particularly don't care how much money they make or think they need. I will cherrypick what I buy from them. just my 2 cents! Have a great weekend all, from snowy ass Boston!

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jan 21, 2011 7:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: ? for all; DEAD biz model related...

>Furthur has released all their SBD's for purchase

Yeah, for what it's worth, I'd prefer that to a you've-got-to-buy-it-all boutique release a la the E 72 box set. It's their right to do the boutique release, of course (and apparently I was wrong about it being a dumb idea, LOL). Just personal preference. (And better than cut-up shows, too.)

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